Interview with Laura Lyons, Marilyn Maxwell, Nancy Smith and Zelma Michael, "Life’s Circle" project participants; and Tamara Coffey, company member

By Ann Kilkelly

Laura Lyons: I am Laura Lyons. If you want to start way back, I was a graduate student at East Tennessee University in public health. I was working as a graduate assistant with a project that was looking at several different health indicators in Wise County. One of those was cancer. That is kind of where part of the background came from. Subsequently I came here to work with Mountain Laurel Cancer Research and Support Center (MLC). Since I have an interest and background, I started with the group. I guess since then, I’ve been working and trying to get data ready, so I haven’t been working as intimately with the "Life’s Circle" project. I’ve had the opportunity to see it and do some of the behind the scenes things.

Ann Kilkelly: Let’s have you introduce yourself as well and then we’ll get started.

Zelma Michael: I am Zelma Michael, and I also work here at MLC. The way I’m involved in this is that my husband was a facilitator for the story-gathering process. I helped with that. We invited people who had cancer stories to tell. We gathered the stories together.

Nancy Smith: George and Zelma were two of several community facilitators that agreed to lead a group in their home or churches or wherever. Amazing stories came out of that process. Having friends and neighbors together, bringing them into your home – the project worked beautifully. It worked as it should have. The stories that came out of it were truly amazing and personal. The whole story, the "Life’s Circle" story ends with a telling of the points of concern that came out of this whole process as it relates to the community addressing cancer needs. It all came together in the end, this list of needs and wants.

Marilyn Maxwell: It was empowering. The people had told the stories. It was woven into the community story, and ends with a list. This is what we want. This is what we need. This is what we are going to do.

AK: The story is the way to get at that in the same way that you said the stories tell you what the community issues are.

MM: Right. The individual stories told you, and then it ends with this articulation of what the community needs are.

AK: What do you specifically remember about the process of putting the art work together? What was that like? Have you got specific memories of moments that you would like to share?

MM: I would like to share from the viewpoint of a storyteller, a person that got to come and tell the story. I didn’t have to write anything or listen to anybody else. I got to have the stage and tell my story. That was very therapeutic for me because I had never sat down and told anyone my cancer story. I might have told a little bit here, or I might have shared a little bit over there. But I had never had the opportunity, in a supportive environment, to just let it flow. Then when you are with other people, too, and they are telling theirs, that will spark something in you, a thought, or a feeling that you might not have even known was there. From the individual’s viewpoint, coming to a storytelling was very therapeutic, in not a traditional therapeutic way. You felt like you were doing it in a way that was not only about you. It was about the community you lived in. It was bigger than yourself. That was good.

AK: Was it fun? Painful?

MM: I think it would differ from person to person. For me, I had a little bit of reluctance at the beginning of it. Once I got into it, it started flowing. I got to talk for about 45 minutes. When I left I thought, well, I wish I would have said more. It brings a lot up. It allows you to put it into some context for sharing it. I am not there for you to tell me, "Oh I’m so sorry." You don’t have to worry about that sort of thing. It is in a more positive, empowering sort of way. You are not there because you want sympathy. It is from the inside. You think, well, could my story have value and try to help everybody that has had cancer?

AK: I always wonder, what is it about hearing somebody else’s story that has that effect? What is the mechanism that helps? Do you have any idea about that?

MM: Well. That is a good question.

AK: It is not one that I have an answer to, by the way.

MM: When I hear somebody else tell a story I think, "Gosh. That has a lot of similarities to my story." I am not isolated. I am not the only person that this has happened to. It is a connecting thing. When you hear somebody else’s story too it sparks your own memory. I am just walking along about half here most of the time. That can spark an individual memory and it helps you get it in a larger framework. It helps to take your memories and your feelings and put it into a larger framework.

AK: With something as painful as cancer, I would guess that you don’t usually willfully spark that memory.

MM: And you don’t just go around, usually, talking about cancer. Not because you don’t want to talk about it, but it is real hard on other people to hear it. They are not sure how they are supposed to respond, or what you are wanting from them. With a storytelling thing, if that is the topic, then everyone is accepting that is what it is going to be. You don’t have to say that you feel sorry. You just get to look at the experience.

ZM: Not all people share their stories, even though they came. There were a couple that were in our group that just were not at that point. They weren’t ready to share their stories.

AK: How does that manifest itself? I know you wouldn’t coerce people to tell their stories, but what do you do?

ZM: Everyone had an opportunity to say whether they were ready to tell their story or not. They came to every gathering, but did not.

AK: Did you ever have any conversations with these folks?

ZM: Well, one lady. It was just so new, even though she had gone though all her treatments. She wasn’t able to verbalize anything.

AK: Do you think it at all helped her just to be there?

ZM: She said so.

AK: I imagine these stories can be quite emotional. People laugh a lot, they cry, they get angry. You clearly think that has some value?

ZM: Oh, yes.

AK: Letting that come out in a common setting, not just a private one. I would like to hear you think about that. Is it different when there is emotion addressed in a community setting, rather than doing it privately.

ZM: In performing "Life’s Circle," people come to hear the stories. They respond.

AK: Whether or not that very thing has happened to them or not. It would have touched them in some way.

ZM: There is hardly anyone who hasn’t been touched in some way with cancer. I think people identify with that. Those feelings are never expressed or acknowledged in a public way. I think everybody has been carrying it around.

AK: And stories put it into some kind of concrete frame so that you can look at it. We are obviously thinking about why theater works, or why storytelling works, or if it works. I think we mostly think it does, or hope it does – that it works better than sitting around the table and talking about it. Something happens when you perform something and there is an audience there. I am real interested in what that is.

NS: It has been really interesting and exciting to watch performances of "Life’s Circle." I have been more of an organizer, but have gotten to see most of the performances.

ZM: We love it when Nancy is in it because when we get to the singing part she is so good.

AK: So, you are in it sometimes?

NS: Occasionally. If one of the usual people are not there to do their part, I might do their part. Anyhow, going on with my thought before I lose it completely – one of the amazing things about "Life’s Circle" has been watching the dynamics of each performance, and how different it will be from time to time, and how every performance takes on a life of its own. It just sort of carries itself to a place.

AK: Because of different people?

NS: It rests within the different individuals who are telling the story. But also there is an interaction with whoever the audience is. Of course the audiences vary a lot from place to place. It creates. It truly takes on a life of its own. It is like an out-of-body experience. You just go and do it, and it becomes something different and amazing every time. It effects people in many different ways, not only the people in the audience but the performers. I wanted to talk a little bit about the process of putting this whole thing together, a process of which I was not directly involved, other than just helping to get all of the information together. Kim Neal is the one who took all of the stories and wove them into "Life’s Circle." Kim was a facilitator, as well as putting all this together.

MM: And I guess Ron Short did the training for the story circles.

NS: Yes. Ron was the primary trainer, and Kim assisted Ron in doing the training of the facilitators.

AK: Is, "Life’s Circle" scripted so that the stories are essentially memorized and told the same way every time?

NS: It is reader theater.

AK: They’ve got a text that they read?

NS: Yes.

ZM: Everybody, from time to time, will embellish a little bit, depending on what’s in their heart at that time.

AK: Sure. And they rehearse?

ZM: At least one before each performance.

NS: Well, now Kim also served as the director.

MM: It has to kind of change from time to time, depending on where it is being presented and we’ll practice and figure things out. In the church here it is going to be different than in a large hall.

NS: As the stories were all taken and put into this one form, some of the stories remained just the stories as they were told. A lot of the stories were blended together so that it becomes more of a community type story. Several of the people who told their stories are also in the performance. Not everyone who performs in "Life’s Circle" shared stories.

AK: Do you do your own stories?

MM: Well, my story is mine plus bringing in others.

NS: Mary Turner, who works here, she also shared a story. The story that she shares is mostly her story. Jim Barker shared the story of his wife’s death from cancer.

AK: I am curious about what you all think about theater? Why have it? It is obvious to me that you all are capable of collecting the stories, but you brought in Ron and Kim to help organize this. How do you see the usefulness, or the importance of the theater in the community for you all? You are not doing this project with them now, right?

TC: Actually the part that Kim took over was separate from the Roadside work, too.

NS: They were hired to do the training, and she was part of that, but then she moved to being the script writer and artistic director just on her own.

MM: I think that storytelling and theater is of critical importance to our vision and dream for this Mountain Laurel Cancer Research and Support Center. In fact, in our planning and what we’ve done, I mean, we’ve got our information and education component, and we’ve gotten that funded. We’ve got a cancer help system. We’ve got the University of Virginia’s College at Wise that got a grant funded with some staff there. Then we need a planner for the center. But what we think is the soul of the whole thing, and if we’ve lost it we have lost our soul, is the theater and storytelling component. We think that is what grounds us in the community. That is what makes us human. That is what makes us reach out and try and be inclusive. It is that tool of the theater.

NS: And the play, "Life’s Circle" was built so that it is not what it was forever. It was built so that stories can be moved in and out of that piece. Or you can develop another piece which represents another community. Acknowledging that there are so many stories.

AK: Do you have the sense that if you want to engage in this process on your own, without the training and facilitation of a theater company, that you might do it? Or do you see it as needing the ongoing partnership?

MM: I think we need the ongoing partnership. I just think we couldn’t do it. I mean we could collect the stories, but we would need someone artistic to put it together in a way to present to the community.

NS: I think that is very helpful in making the work as good as it can be. When you have the expertise of people who are professionals in that field who can help you do this on your own.

MM: They have the talents and skills that we need.

AK: What do you think those are, those skills and talents that you don’t have that you need from the theater?

MM: I think being an artist, being able to weave things, being able to write, being able to write in an entertaining way, being able to script, knowing how the interaction between this and who comes and make that magic happen.

NS: Well, the magic of the performance too. You always want it to appear as if it just happened as natural as getting up in the morning. You want to leave that impression, but we all know that is not necessarily true. It requires some skill and attention to develop that sort of a presentation. Not everyone, no matter how great their story is or sincere their desire is, has the ability to get that across. If you have a little bit of coaching or help, people who are not all that skilled in presenting or performing in a public place can do that.

AK: You are making me want to speculate about what an artist is. I’m wondering if you think of yourself as artists? I would think of you as artists in this process.

MM: I think I am a part of an artistic process, and I think I bring certain things to it. I mean, I am not denying what I bring, but I do not bring the capability to take it all together and put it into a performance.

AK: You all smiled when I said that. There was a group response to what I said. I want to tell you that because I teach women’s studies. We often have this discussion about are you an artist because you make art, or are you an artist because you have these certain skills, or are you an artist because you are a professional and someone pays you to do that? I don’t know the answer to all of that.

MM: I just think there are certain skills that you have to have, whether you identify as an artist or the artist is in each of us, that we don’t have. But we recognize it in Kim, and we recognize it in Ron, and we recognize it in Roadside. Without those things that they have we wouldn’t be talking about "Life’s Circle" here today. I think we would have had some really good things that would have gone on in people’s homes, but it would have stopped there. Would you agree with that? It would have been positive, but not as positive as it is now.

NS: I agree. I think it would be safe to say that those of us who have been involved with "Life’s Circle" in a performance sort of way, have not particularly thought of ourselves as artists. Our thoughts are more towards the importance being in the message. We also know that there has to be a way to deliver the message so that it is accepted and understood. We have to learn how to speak clearly, and raise our eyes above our script that we are reading. We have to learn not to fiddle with our scripts during performance and sit up straight. There are all these technical things that are a part of it. I think all of us recognize that.

MM: You can change the storytellers. The thing is constructed in such a way that you can change the storytellers. Even when you do, the message is what is heard.

AK: The art creates the artist, or the story creates the artist rather than vice versa? What do you think about that?

TC: Well, you know, all the work that Roadside does comes from this place. If we weren’t in this place we would be doing something else. We might be making art, we might not. I think that is true. It all comes from community, who we are as people. I think Marilyn is right. The story is the most powerful thing.

AK: I would like to have you say something about impact, assessment and the kinds of things that have to do with your role in all of this, Laura.

LL: I don’t know that we have done anything formal to look and assess. We haven’t, to my knowledge. I think that if you look at the story gatherings there is kind of a qualitative study, which is sort of the way I think of it. Look at the things that were pulled out of that, as far as needs and wants. I think that the group has done a lot to try and address those. The main thing, of course, being the Mountain Laurel Center. That was one of the main things that came out from the story gathering.

I think that as we continue to develop there will be more opportunities for formal evaluations and things like that. Simply the responsiveness of the community members to try and make these dreams a reality is a pretty good evaluation in itself. These were successful, they weren’t just story gatherings just to talk about it. It wasn’t just for the purpose of gathering information, but of actually doing something with the information. Taking it to design and implement programs to meet needs.

AK: You are actually enhancing the lives of community members, in terms of long-term effect. Do you see this as connected to social change in any way?

MM: I think we see advocacy as a very important role. Advocacy would then lead to systemic change, whether it is in a local system or lobbying on a federal level.

AK: When you say, "systemic change" my ears perk up. I am interested in hearing about how you see systemic change. What kind of systemic change needs to happen? And how do you see projects like this effecting that kind of change long-term?

MM: Well, I think there are all sorts of problems. They could be the scheduling at the local cancer center. Or they could be as big as mammograms need to be covered for people under the age of 65. It could be a healthcare thing.

Ann Kilkelly is a professor of theater arts and women's studies at Virginia Tech. She is recognized nationally as a scholar and performer of jazz-tap dancing and history, performance studies and interactive performance techniques. She has received Smithsonian Senior Fellowships and a National Endowment for the Humanities Collaborative Research Grant, and performs and gives master classes in jazz tap around the country. At Virginia Tech she served as the director of Women's Studies for six years, she teaches and directs multimedia performance concerts, and she recently created the Diversity Training Laboratory to help students and faculty use performance techniques to examine diversity issues.

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