Interview with Denise H., company member, and William Wiggins, Skid Row resident

by Ferdinand Lewis

[Interviewer’s note: The ongoing "War on Drugs" started by President Reagan was the backdrop for this particular LAPD project ("Agents and Assets"). In order to assess the success of the war, one has to take a position on whether or not incarceration actually has the effect of reducing drug abuse. In the U.S., opinion is starkly divided on this issue, between those who assert that incarceration deters drug use, and those who believe that treatment is the only solution. On Skid Row, opinion tends to fall into the latter category. Shortly before my research began, the State of California passed Proposition 36, which allowed for mandatory drug addiction treatment as the penalty for possession of small amounts of drugs, rather than mandatory incarceration. For the workers and residents of Skid Row, this was considered something of a victory. – F.L.]

Ferdinand Lewis: This your first show with?

Denise H.: Here, with LAPD, yes.

FL: You’ve done other plays?

DH: Yeah, back East.

FL: Oh, really?

DH: But nothing like this. It was great. You know what, it was very informative, educational because I have a big problem with the drug problem. I’ve never used or anything like that, but I’ve been involved with those and I have family members that did and it really angered me. I’ve been here [Los Angeles] almost three years and where I come from, it’s a small town. You don’t see it like you do here. It really messes with your mind. It’s very depressing when you see people hanging out like they do on the drugs and laying all over. How we got involved with the play itself is through Robert Chambers. He was the one that introduced us to John, and I think it’s great.

FL: How’d you know Robert Chambers?

DH: I don’t know. He met him somewhere, so we got involved with the Homeless Coalition. Then he told us, him and Ricky about John doing this play, so we came and John had us read.

FL: What did you think?

DH: I think a lot of people don’t know really the history. We didn’t know that it [the spread of crack] started with the wealthy people and it never was meant to get down into the poor neighborhoods. That was pretty interesting. Then when we went to see [the film] "Traffic," where it came across the border from Mexico and so, we know that there were some Mexicans that had something to do with it – not saying that they’re the only ones. But it just kind of sickens you because you know the government has their hands in a lot of this stuff anyway, but to really bring it out. I think really they should be exposed so the people of America can get together, like he was saying, and looking at the top, because it’s just so much the President and those in Congress can do. We too, like he was saying, we are the soldiers, those are the leaders. They need somebody that’s going to actually do something out here, because their hands are tied. So, for the people to come together, actually to help us know what we can do, because we’re out here. They’re not out here so much among you. Some of them may dibble and dabble in, but they’re not really out here. The majority of us are out here. They can go and actually function the next day after they do their little thing, but then us, look at so many people walking down there like zombies, day to day, and a lot of people right now come down here to Skid Row.

I’ve not done drugs and I’m wondering why I’m down here, but there’s a reason why you’re placed in certain areas. My heart goes out to those people, but there’s nothing I can do to help them. Every now and then you might give a dollar out to them but you’ve gotta pay more than a dollar. My first husband had so much of this stuff and I didn’t even know what it was. I’m driving around in the car in Michigan and he’s got big storage bags full of this stuff. I’m not knowing what it is because I don’t do drugs and he didn’t do it around me, so I don’t know. They showed me this and it just blew me away because I’ve never seen it. I think the more that people like John [Malpede] and other people like the writer of "Traffic," they go forth with it, I think people will start to wake up and listen. Even those that are having problems, that’s out there, that’s doing it, maybe they’ll realize that somebody cares. They don’t – I’m gonna say we – we come down here on Skid Row and they’re throwing us away, they’ve forgotten about us. We’re hopeless and helpless as well as homeless. They just don’t want to be bothered. And a lot of times they feel that we’ve done this to ourselves. If I had got a chance to get up there and talk, I was gonna say America needs to go back to the foundation which they were founded on, Christianity. You need to go back there because I don’t care how, even though Proposition 36 and all these others coming out, they may be good, but I mean it was founded on a religious-type things.

FL: Is this your fiancé, by the way?

William Wiggins: I’m William Wiggins.

FL: You were saying we need to go back to a more Christian base?

DH: Yeah.

FL: I was wondering what that does for a community?

DH: That’s the only way we’re going to win this war on drugs, especially because our bodies weren’t designed for these types of chemicals. We were created to be in control of, not to be controlled, and if people realize they don’t have to be controlled – I have a problem with they’re getting more jails and prisons, but why aren’t they watching and stopping the shipments coming in.

WW: You see, we’re the invisible community. We represent the invisible community. It’s a heck of a community, but it is a community.

FL: What is that?

WW: When you drive through there and you see the community of Skid Row, what do you see?

FL: The boxes.

W: And people laying on the street. But you never see me and her, but we live there. You see, I’ve been so close to the boxes, I’ve slept in the park. I chose not to stay there. You see, the invisible-people community that live there chooses not to stay there in spirit. My body is still there but my spirit is here. My spirit doesn’t die. My spirit is with God. My spirit is here with you. But if I was just a regular alcoholic addict who decides to be a part of the Skid Row community, I would be trying to get something out of you and I’d give you what I got, and what I got is a gift from God to be able to talk to you and shake your hand. See, I’m gonna give you something, but the Skid Row community that’s visible is here to take something. You see, there are part of us out there that’s here to give you something. That’s to give you an enlightenment on what’s going on with us, and what’s actually going on with us is that we’re not homeless nor are we helpless. But when we reach out for some help and we reach out for a home, don’t put us down.

FL: Do you think the show serves that purpose?

DH: Oh yes.

WW: – because people like you come in and see people like us doing what we’re doing. Unless you see my fiancé, who’s never been on drugs, who is a case of homelessness, but you see her working towards something. When you look at it now you see Maxine Waters [her role] instead of seeing me. You’ve got respect for us. You’ve got respect for us. You didn’t say, "Is that your boyfriend?" You said, "Is that your fiancé?" Had you been on the streets, you wouldn’t have asked us, I hate to say this, but if that was her fiancé you would have said, "Is that your boyfriend, is that your man?" You’d have to, because they would be coming to intimidate you. We don’t come to intimidate you. We come to enlighten you. We’re the invisible community.

FL: What was that like, playing Maxine Waters?

DH: Strange. It was great, because I’m so against the drugs and she’s seeing we’re really against it. But a lot of them just kind of played it off. They’re really just covering up what Mr. Hitz or the CIA are doing They’re going along with it when they’re out front. They’re out front and that’s the way I am. I hated it so much. [Gestures to William] He started me writing poems, and I’m not a poem writer, but I was so angry one day. I came down the street and something just struck me, so I went home and I was going off on my anger and I talked about how they go across the street just so contented with their grocery carts and they’re picking up their bottles and they’re using the bathroom and I went and I wrote about that.: how we walk by and we look down our nose at them, but yet we’re still saying we’re helpless but you’ve got the power. Then I went to talk about the government. You have the power. You put us there in these places and you say you’re gonna help us out but you really don’t. You’re getting paid to do this and that. I’m glad they’re setting up all these places where we can go but really –

FL: Places where you can go? What do you mean?

DH: You know these shelters and the recovery, the sobriety, stuff like that that they have, but are they really, do they really care? What help are they giving? They aren’t giving me any help. Now, I appreciate what they’re doing, but then to me personally, personally, my personal opinion on it is, it’s to keep their foot on the top of me.

FL: What do you need?

DH: I need a job. I need a job out here. These homeless people that’s out here smoking crack every day, having nothing to do. just go around begging you and me. Even though I don’t have it and I’m on General Relief, I’ve never had that. I was in Pomona because I was traveling with this CP team before the bus strike. Going from Toys R Us, I loved the job. I was on the worst strip there was. It was for prostitutes and addicts. I didn’t know that, because I don’t know that much about Pomona. I’m moving out there because of my job. So, I gets ripped up and stuff like that, my clothes and stuff like that taken. I ended up homeless. The money I was making was good, but it wasn’t enough to live in hotels that whole week, so I would have to be homeless a few days a week until my job ended.

FL: To keep your job?

DH: To keep my job. Somehow we have to get it out there to the public. Look, even though we seem to be – and I call us castaways – even though we may be castaways, we’re still a part of society and you cannot throw us away. We’re not going away. We will never go away. You’re gonna have us there. You can close your eyes to that, but we’re gonna be here. I’m just asking for a chance. I’m not asking for a whole lot. I’m not asking for a job that pays $25 or $30 an hour. I’m just asking for you to help me get back on my feet, give me a place in society where I’ve lost somewhere along the way somehow I lost it because somebody’s heart hasn’t been opened to let Denise in and give me her chance to prove that she can be a productive citizen. This is what’s happening on Skid Row, and then I’m angry because not just here, but it’s across the world now.

FL: But you’ve proven yourself doing this?

WW: Yeah. I think so. I get a chance to voice what I really – even though Mrs. Waters is saying it, Denise is feeling the same things. She believes all that she says.

FL: Writing that poem, is that anything like doing this?

DH: Oh God yes it is. It may anger some people because I was kind of hard on society, because I really feel that they’re looking down at me and this is what I called them. There’s a scripture, John 10:10, that says [inaudible], but I took the first part, "kill, steal and destroy," and I told them, I said to society, "You’re the killer. You’re the thief and you’re the one that destroys, because you hold it. You hold it in your hand. You have everything that Denise needs." I can’t really quote what I wrote, but that’s the way I put it and I was just thinking it out how they possibly kill us by looking down upon us because I’ve made the wrong turn. There’s a fork in the road and I probably swayed off on this side and then they’re stealing from me because they said they’re putting me up and they’re caring for me in these places, but really they’re not, because they’re really making money off of me. They don’t care nothing about me and they’re destroying us because they have the power. They hold all the power. So, I was lashing out at the people that’s up there. I feel like if some of them like you thought enough to come down here and the people on the panel come down here and really take a look at us and really find out how we really feel, rather than Proposition 36 building more places to put us in so that we can come clean, I think if they come down and just pick us up off of the ground and say, "You know what, I’m gonna give you a chance. I know what you’re about, but I’m gonna give you a chance. I’m gonna take you and train you." Because a lot of them out there are very gifted. There was a guy, I wish I could have brought the picture. Oh, the man could draw. Great. And you have a lot of people out there with talent that could do something, but are just not given the chance because again they may be on drugs.

Ferdinand Lewis is a founding member of The Ghost Road Company, an educator, writer and theater artist. He is currently at work on two books: "Ensemble Theater: An Anthology" and "Ensemble Theater: Traditions, Approaches, Strategies." He lives in Los Angeles.

PERFORMING COMMUNITIES
Carpetbag | Cornerstone | Dell'Arte | Jump-Start
LAPD | Pregones | Roadside | WagonBurner
Commentaries